Posts by Separation of Powers

12

Proverbs 4:18 as Last Scriptural Defense for New Light?

by ProfCNJ in

hi folks, good morning.

july 2013 wt study edition has been discussed and commented on at length here in jw.net and in cedar's blog (jwsurvey.org).

won't go to technicalities as significant amount of stellar arguments have cast doubt on the new light, let alone break wt's claims anew.. .

Separation of Powers

Prof CNJ

Your position is solid and rest assured that most on this forum have contended with the same questions. I don't really remember the first time I was intrigued by the "new light" position, but I would have to say one of the most impressive changes that moved me to question the validity of "light" wasn't even a doctrinal issue.

Way back when an article was written about the American native, I believe it was referring mainly to the eskimos, or Inuit people. The article condemned the "totem pole" as a pagan religious icon or idol. At the time, I was still in school and remembered reading that the totem pole wasn't a religious symbol, but rather, more like a homage to the family tree. I was perplexed, but accepting.

Lo and behold, a couple of months later (I believe), someone wrote a letter to the organization that challenged that position and the organization retracted their comments and stated that the "totem pole" was indeed a family artifact and not pagan in origen.

I knew at that time...I don't know why, but I knew that the idea of light was based on who was in charge and who was writing this stuff.

Just a thought,

SOP

25

Shunning for inactive ones?

by frogonmytoe in

jw
friends

i visited my sister in a small town in the midst of the country, the town has a population of 3,000 and there's about 70 in the cong.

anyway, there was a local needs talk a few months ago about associating with family members who didn't live under your roof and no longer went to meetings.

one family of an elder dad and three sons (one an elder too, the others have stopped going) and a daughter (still going but married a 'worldly') are quite prominent and one half of a typical congregational feud.

Separation of Powers

That may well be on the drawing board. Truth is, however, that most inactive ones that I know don't mind being shunned to some degree. In fact, next time you are at the hall, pay attention to the amount of people that arrive right when it starts and leave at the closing "amen." I would venture to say, they simply don't want to be included in the mix. They have, to some degree, distanced themselves from the group and are simply going through the motions.

Additionally, if that does happen, it will simply help to fulfill the "love of the greater number" cooling off prophecy. Why? Because to shun someone who is weak and demonstrates that weakness by becoming inactive is in direct conflict to Jesus' words that the shepherd will leave his 99 and look for "that one lost sheep."

Just a thought,

SOP

26

Peace and Security - When?

by rhodesboy in

my interpretation of gb (governing body) theology has illuminated a fate for mankind in the near future.

i invite you to read the following extracts and my analysis thereafter- theologists only please.. 1 thessalonians 5:3.

''whenever it is that they are saying: "peace and security!

Separation of Powers

RhodesBoy,

Thank you for your effort. I appreciate when I see someone strive to make sense of the Bible.

I am a theologist. However, I will not attempt to interpret portions of the Bible written thousands of years ago in a language that is either dead or on the decline. Theologians the world over have tried to make modern day application of ancient texts. Most of them are skilled in the ancient languages and thus can understand the nuance and grammatical tone and texture of the original. Yet, with all that training and understanding, most would say that the portion of Daniel to which you refer is applicable to an ancient world and a modern-day interpretation is replete with bias and a miopic sense of history as well as an overinflated egocentrism.

As for a war with Russia? Well, having lived through the Cuban missile crisis, I can assure you that if Russia wanted to take the U.S. to war and blow each other off the map, that would have happened back in 1962. Today, the world is interdependent and the rise of capitalism and the fact that the powers that be are benefitting from both a freer drug trade and commodities markets leads me to believe that all out war is not on the horizon, too much money is made with the illegal sale of arms to skirmish groups and fanatical organizations to worry about a major power rebuilding its arsenal. At present, a country is typically more concerned with their neighbors than they are with someone on the other side of the globe.

Just a thought,

SOP

134

Another story... possibly final story

by confusedandalone in

this is the exchange of text messages i had with my super spiritual brother.

it is sad... it is pathetic... it has helped me realize that i have no connection to these people anymore.

i feel free today.

Separation of Powers

CandA,

Sorry to hear that you are going through this. It sounds way too familiar. If I were in your shoes, I would decline providing the help and let my JW family do what needs to be done. For your brother to state that you are being used by Jehovah to help them out and then expect that after you help them out you will be cast aside is ludicrous.

A quick story to help solidfy my position. A couple months ago, a brother was talking about how he had started to slow down in his service, you know, missing meetings and service, signs of complacency. He said that one night, to show how far he had gotten away from Jehovah, he was being bothered by only what he could refer to as "the demons." Because of this event, he started back to the meetings and service and now...he is fine.

I asked him, "So, the demons helped you get back to Jehovah? "

His reply, "Well, no. The "experience" of what happens when you draw away from Jehovah. That's what helped me."

"But, the experience was caused by the demons because you had drawn away right? They knew you were weak so they attacked you and now you're back. So, they really helped you get back to Jehovah. That's all I'm saying."

He was a bit perplexed, but conceded.

Point is. If the scripture is right, namely James 1:13, "For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone." Then what "union is there between good and evil" and "you cannot eat from the table of God and of the demons." I mean, if all those scriptures are true, then why in the world would they want anything at all to do with you if you are SOOOOOO evil! It is psychological abuse and manipulation.

It's like the guy that wins the lottery, gets called into a judicial committee for gambling and then gets public reproof only because he gives half of his money to the congregation. (Not that this has happened to my knowledge. It is simply a farsical way of describing the double standard.)

Just my thoughts,

SOP

22

No Natural Affection...

by lostinnj83 in

my latest encounter with my mom has me furious and i needed a place to vent:.

i don't post alot but for anyone who has read any of my posts knows that while i have been struggling for some time, i am still an active jw working towards leaving.. anyway, i got into a car accident yesterday.

fortunately i am well enough to type this up so for that i am greatful.

Separation of Powers

I'm sorry you are experiencing the reality of the organization. I concur with the other post that stated that this isn't confined to just the organization. It is true that many have "no natural affection." But, in an organization that "markets" itself as the only "spiritual paradise on earth," affection for family and friends should be blatantly apparent.

I cannot tell you how many times in my life and those of the people I love where the organization took precedent mainly for the sake of appearances.

It is really a simple mathematical equation where we become "B" or "C." You already know what "A" is.

A > B If C < BThen A > C

SOP

8

God has always used one channel, one group of people, to communicate his messages to.

by poopieskoopie in

jw
friends

ok, since time indefinite jehovah has always used only one channel (his people) to reveal himself and future events to.. are we to totally disregard the dreams given to nebuchenezzer, then king of the world, in the book of daniel???

yes, dreams directly from god himself to a pagan deviate with a weird name.

why were they not given to daniel???

Separation of Powers

@Sir82

My sentiments EXACTLY!

No FDS means no clear channel, just a bunch of static for 2000 years. Eusebius, Polycarp, Agustine, Martin Luther, Wycliffe, Tyndale.....voices in the wilderness.

SOP

33

Fading ... Do You Owe Witness Friends An Explanation?

by What Now? in

i'm curious about what you all think on this subject.

when my husband and i became irregular about a year ago, and then inactive around 5 months ago, i felt that it would be hypocritical to take advantage of the social side of the witness community if we weren`t going to meetings or in service.

we stopped entertaining (which we did quite regularly - theme parties, card parties, movie nights, big turkey dinners, breakfasts on holidays etc), and i slowly stopped accepting invitations for get togethers, playdates etc.

Separation of Powers

Hey WhatNow?

I appreciated your sarcasm, myself, being a firm believer in sarcasm, thougt it witty and on point.

The established social order in the organization is the only reason some stay in. I would venture to say most.

To leave the organization is, for some, to leave the only social order they know. That is a devastating option for some, so they choose to remain. For the brave, however, there is a whole world of people out there that are innately sociable! Can you believe that!

Aristotle stated that "man is, by nature, a social animal." I, for one, believe this to be true. There are plenty of people out there that agree with this concept. You simply have to reach out and socialize. No, you don't have to go to bars. You can get behind a cause, something that you firmly believe in; something upbuilding in its truest sence. Not in the "upbuilding" sense of the organization, which simply means, "be positive and encourage more effort." ("Don't worry...WORK." N.H. Knorr) When your heart is behind something that other hearts are behind, your connection with other people will be lasting and genuine.

I know it's hard. Some, like me, are content to have had a limited social circle within the organization. So, leaving it, or abandoning it rather, was not so hard. Others struggle a little, mainly because they were told that they should extricate themselves from society. Well, now that you have extricated yourself from the Society, it's time to wedge yourself back into that crowded subway train and head on down the line.

SOP

31

Fading hurts so much!!

by ILoveTTATT in

yet another update on my story:.

for various reasons, i still have to go to all meetings.

(i am looking to change my personal circumstances to allow me to live somewhere else so i can fade easier)... i actually don't mind going to the mid-week meeting since i can comment on the bible reading, and slowly but surely i can introduce little seeds of cognitive dissonance... making it seem like i am super interested in what the interlinear says or that people can actually go and check out the manuscripts for themselves online!

Separation of Powers

I think most on this board can sympathize with your feelings and situation. I would like to address a portion of your post, you mentioned that you sometimes just want to say, "....Apparent contradiction. EVIL APOSTATES would say that."

In the DC part about "Human Apostates," the brother was very careful to specify the difference between "doubters" and "apostates." For him, it was all about tone. The viewpoint that apostates desire someone to follow them is the crux of the organization's argument. Many people are leaving, enticed but what they have read or seen. Others, however, are simply falling by the wayside. They are mentally checking out because it just doesn't make any sense. Some leave and make a scene, others leave and no one knows why...and interestingly, no one particularly cares to ask.

For one, I have never heard as much commotion regarding an adjustment in teaching as I have heard about the FDS change. Old timers are concerned. They recall the 1981 article about the "objectors." They remember the attack against those that were "not of our sort" that had the audacity to question doctrine and the hierarchical structure of the organization. Now, they see that the same belief that was categorically dismissed as arising from objectors, namely, the identity of the FDS being classified as the worldwide remnant of anointed...a class.

That same objection is now the standing doctrine. There is no "class." There is only the GB.

This, unfortunately, is hard for many to swallow and the organization is experiencing the blowback. Therefore, the need to define the difference between a "doubter" and an "apostate." Afterall, you can't have a CO or DO speaking to his fellow CO's or DO's or even members of the Writing Committee and questioning things be labeled as an apostate can you?

So, when you find it hard to swallow something, it may be best to speak in terms of doubt or don't speak at all. You would be surprised how many old timers are doing the same thing.

SOP

54

my first post and some questions

by wallievase in

this is my first post after deciding to finally open an account here after months of 'lurking'.. a couple of issues i want to address-.

i have issues with people who go from being a witness to losing all faith in god or the bible which seems to be the case with some members of this site.

i just don't think you can let any religion change how you view god or the bible.. second-i don't feel the gb are bad people, i think most witnesses including them are misguided by something that has been drilled into their heads since they were little and are actually sincere people.

Separation of Powers

Wallievase,

I think alot of people become so disilusioned by what they have experienced and the indoctrination against Christendom and all other religions so strong that they simply give up on God. They are taught that this is the true religion and when it fails to live up to their expectation of "true," then they find no other alternative but to leave God out of the equation of their lives.

As for the GB not being bad people, I will not argue with that. Another poster referred to the "captives of a concept" mentality. When one believes that they are endowed by their creator with special privileges and that God works through them, the authoritarian structure is the logical progression.

In any event, good luck on your quest for truth. Don't allow the rhetoric to get you down, that's just how some people cope.

SOP

40

Former Longtime Elder : Contributions

by James Jackson in

jw
friends

for a year now, i have been handling the accounts.

we have 6 elders and 7 ms, and none of them ( i am not serving), want to do the accounts, so they asked me to do it.

here is what i have noticed.. 4 elderly sisters cover the whole congregation in donations monthly!

Separation of Powers

JJ,

The accounts is by far one of the most time consuming responsibilities in the cong. Other than the Secretary position, it is also the most thankless. With regard to contributions, my question would be...how are the donations for the WWW? That is really the only thing that matters to the HQ particularly when congregations share the same hall. When contributions for upkeep are down in one hall, there will customarily be the "equalizing" talk given in other halls.

As for contributions from elders, well, why contribute money when you give so much time for free? There has to be an "equalizing" there too.

SOP